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ayesart
August 2009 
MtDNA Follow Up and Conclusion.
ayesart
This post is sharing with you my communication and the answers to them in regard to getting descendants of the ancient Taino people formally recognized by mtDNA lab that processes DNA for genealogical purposes. In the past, all labs have returned results with a statement that the mtDNA is of an "American Indian" origin. That's fine, but when one belongs to a specific people who have been labeled as being "extinct" and no longer existing...
The struggle has been going on for over 514 years since Columbus got lost on his way to Asia. History has recorded the event as one that was his sole discovery of the Americas.
History has also recorded that Lief Ericsson also discovered America before Columbus.
It is also theorized that Buddhist missionaries came to America before Lief Ericsson.
The truth is that indigenous people were always here. Their mtDNA proves that they were the founding people's of this land. The Taino ancestors immigrated to the Greater Antilles 5,000 years BC on boats crafted with their skillful hands. When they came to the Antilles, they discovered that the place was inhabited by a much older race of indigenous people.
I am writing about haplo group C encountering haplo group A founders.
History is being rewritten day by day, little by little by people like myself who have asked questions and have diplomatically written letters via E mails and the snail mails gently demanding that clarifications and corrections be made to a long standing issue.
It can be done with a little faith and focus.
It's called the Da Vincian way of thinking creatively to solve a specific problem, look at nature free of tinted lenses so one can learn the many lessons she has hidden within her.
He was a genius who was living his dream way before his time. He seemed not to have any sense of self limitation. The world at the time was very into conquering nature. Unfortunately it still is.
I have studied many of Da Vinci's written verses on the subject of art, science and creative thinking....He's a good mentor.
Now, what has been achieved here is important to those who are thinking of having their mtDNA analyzed by a lab and they are of Taino descendancy and of Puerto Rican, Cuban or Dominican nationality. They must write that they are of Taino by their family in the past that there is a link to the latter within the family verbal history.
If you have had your mtDNA tested and the results have come back that you are of haplo group A, and C and you are of Taino blood, by all means have your lab change your kit to reflect it. Don't settle with being pidgeon holed into a specific generalized group.
Yes, we are American Indigenous people but we are also a specific people within that group. Taino the people who met and greeted Columbus.
-----Original Message-----
From: cmcd@familytreedna.com
To: ayesart11@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: (Name Witheld for privacy)
Hello John,
First question: According to my present understanding they, my present and future HVR matches, have been given sanction to formally write FTDNA, you or anyone else, via the mails or E mail, or when they are processing their kits for the first time in their paperwork, to request that their mtDNA kits reflect their Taino heritage, providing they are of Puerto Rican nationality and having a family verbal Taino ancestry. Am I correct?
Answer:
John, FTDNA's database is a private database that is not used in research so we are a little more flexible in what gets entered. If someone who is of Puerto Rican ancestry with a verbal record of Taino ancestry tests, and writes this on the release form, or tests and belongs to a haplogroup that is Native American, and wants us to show this ancestry we will list this for them.
Second question: For the persons in the future who haven't had testing yet, they will be allowed to request the latter as well? Of course, their results will screen them out if their results show that they belong to a different haplo group that isn't the same as mine- Taino heritage...
Answers:
Yes.
The answer to your third question is the same as the first.
Fourth question: Does FTDNA have a test that will go deeply enough within a person's DNA to reveal their specific tribal lineage? If you do, what is it called? Does one have to have an HVR1 and HVR2 done first? Or can one have all three tests done at the same time? And will they get a price break if they already have had an HVR1 and HVR2 test already done...? How much would such a test cost if it exists. What does it reveal?
Answer:
No, there are no mtDNA tests that have been able to be used to assign to particular tribes. The full mtDNA sequence test can be ordered, however, without the research to show what the full mtDNA sequences of likely Taino or other Tribes ancestors would look like (which we do not have, consider how difficult it is to find just regular mtDNA papers with HVr1 or HVR2 mutations shown) we could not imply or tell you that you'd be able to confirm specific tribal affiliations. The research is the key, and it is not at a place that we can clearly tell people, you are Taino or Quecha, based on their mtDNA results.
I hope that you do not misunderstand me. I understand the goals and objectives of what you are trying to prove. I am trying to explain the limits of what can realistically be proven and shown out of respect for science and what may become available in the future. I do not want people to be overly exuberant about what exactly MTDNA can show. We have a responsibility to not overstate any case. Your enthusiasm for your people and your history are great, but you must recognize that there are limits to what can be claimed about mtDNA and ancestry. We've discussed them in many previous emails, but you know my concerns. Hopefully, you do not see this as being cynical or misunderstanding your culture, but remaining focused on what it can tell us.
But to sum up. If a person tests and provides Puerto Rican or Cuban Dominican Republic and Taino, we will list this as their ancestry. If that is what they report to us, this is what we will report in the database. The only way we would ever override or edit that is if we saw their entry in a database next to a haplogroup result that would make that impossible, like an African or European haplogroup. If people that match you or others who have Taino ancestry contact us and state that they would like the Taino ancestry also listed for themselves, because their families were Puerto Ricans and they match Puerto Ricans who claim Taino ancestry, we'll be happy to change them, even on HVR1 matches. We are not going to automatically change things for people because they share results with people who list Puerto Rican Taino ancestry, however, but if requested, as we were in the past by you, we will be happy to update them.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Have a nice day,
(Name Witheld)
Family Tree DNA
www.familytreedna.com
"History Unearthed Daily"
At 05:14 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:
Dear, (Name Witheld)
I am writing you today in regard to reaching a full understanding of what has been written by you to me in regard to mtDNA results and people who match my mtDNA HVR 1 and 2 sequences who have Taino ancestry as well as a Puerto Rican Heritage.
In your last communication to me you stated that, "if someone who matches my results and is from Puerto Rico and requests to have their kits reflect Taino ancestry you, FTDNA would be happy to do so."
First question: This is where I want to refine the understanding. Are you including those persons who match my HVR1 or are you meaning those who are matching my HVR2 sequence results or both?
This is what I also want to clarify...
First question: There are a lot of people who match my HVR1 results within my FTDNA page...
There are also quite a few who are matching my HVR2 results perfectly without any mutations + or -, three such people are .... and ..... as well as a new match, that was just posted to my page, by the name of ..... and others. Which ones will have the sanction? HVR1 or HVR2, or both?
According to my present understanding they, my present and future HVR matches, have been given sanction to formally write FTDNA, you or anyone else, via the mails or E mail, or when they are processing their kits for the first time in their paperwork, to request that their mtDNA kits reflect their Taino heritage, providing they are of Puerto Rican nationality and having a family verbal Taino ancestry. Am I correct?
Second question: For the persons in the future who haven't had testing yet, they will be allowed to request the latter as well? Of course, their results will screen them out if their results show that they belong to a different haplo group that isn't the same as mine- Taino heritage...
Third question...My wife, kit number ..... and her brother, kit number .... have been designated as being of the haplo group A and their kits reflect their rich Taino ancestry....Will other people within that haplo group, being of Puerto Rican nationality and of Taino descendancy be allowed to have their kits designated as being of Taino ancestry upon their request as well at their request?
Fourth question: Does FTDNA have a test that will go deeply enough within a person's DNA to reveal their specific tribal lineage? If you do, what is it called? Does one have to have an HVR1 and HVR2 done first? Or can one have all three tests done at the same time? And will they get a price break if they already have had an HVR1 and HVR2 test already done...? How much would such a test cost if it exists. What does it reveal?
I think the last question is more consumer oriented...
Fifth question: As you know from having read the mtDNA studies, that Cuban and Dominican remains were tested and studied and results were published in journals. Will anyone who claims a Taino ancestry from those groups also be allowed to have their kits reflect Taino heritage at their written request as well?
In my opinion it would be avisible to allow this too...as long as their mtDNA results confirm the possibility of haplo group sequences of ancient Taino ancestry...and as long as they state that they have a family verbal history of the latter....
Please, don't misunderstand me, I am just trying to get a full understanding of what has been written and how far it extends into the present day Taino descendant communities.
In your last writing to me you stated that the papers written about Taino ancestry seemed to contradict Cruzado's previous papers. I have gone and acquired a more detailed and more recent paper that was written by Cruzado on the subject I have taken the liberty to send it herein...I think its a learning process for both of us that is important in regard to the Taino people understanding that such studies are important as long as they are of a benefit to them in the end, instead of serving as someone's venue to getting a grant.
The way we look upon the whole matter is very important because the bones of our ancestors were removed from their resting places-their sanctified and sacred ground to be studied, probed and essentially mutilated by genetic scientists who scraped off samples of bone so they could be processed for mtDNA study and research.
The way I look at it is that many numbers, calculations and percentages arose as well as inferences of origins. These all are worthless information in my opinion because they in the end have caused conflicting opinions and have benefitted not one of my ancestor people and their descendants. What is important is that the specific numbers and letters, polymorphisms, that comprised the mtDNA of those ancestor bones came to light. They match the polymorphisms that are prevelant within our people today.
In any case, I again want to thank you and FTDNA for all your consideration and understanding thus far.
Respectfully,
John Browne Ayes y Maldonado
Hello John
These papers did not contain the type of results that we discussed would be needed to be included in the library. If you'll review them you'll see some did not pertain to mtDNA, and others, including the ones about Taino ancestry in the Dominican Republic seemed to contradict Cruzado's previous papers. If anything they display the need for more particular and concentrated research about the Taino people. At this time, mtDNA research simply cannot make the distinction between tribes found in the same region and areas responsibly.
If someone who matches your results and is from Puerto Rico and requests to be labeled Taino, we will be happy to do so. But, we will not assign a particular ancestry without the request of that participant because of information found in these particular papers. I understand your passion for the ancestry of the native peoples of Puerto Rico and hope you do not take the criticism of the papers as a denial or criticism of these people. But, as I've explained in previous emails, the scientific research is the first consideration with the testing.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Have a nice day,
Family Tree DNA
www.familytreedna.com
"History Unearthed Daily"
John Ayes, Hyper Visualist Artist.
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